Homing Shots: At What Yardage Do They Start Working?

[HoTHiTTeR]

I never really noticed this until a couple days ago, but my homing shots aren't consistent in triggering from shorter yardages. Is there a general rule of thumb or minimum yardage for when they should always work?

[the_smug_one]

Several dynamics determine whether a shot will home. First and foremost, a character's spin and their distance from the hole play a role. High spin is obviously good, while being too far out or too close in can hurt your chances of homing. The "fullness" of your swing also matters - that is to say, you're much less likely to get a homing when swinging at 52% from 16 yards out than swinging at 98% from 14 yards out. Another factor is the ball's lie, though it's probably easiest to think about this in the context of how it affects the spin you are able to put on the ball.

[BGunner]

I believe another factor is the change in elevation between the ball and the hole... but then again I don't think I've ever tried a homing shot on a chip, ever. Try for the riser....

[HoTHiTTeR]

I believe another factor is the change in elevation between the ball and the hole... but then again I don't think I've ever tried a homing shot on a chip, ever. Try for the riser....


Yeah, I almost always do go for the riser unless I'm looking down a huge slope that'll end up having the ball roll off the green. I was talking more or less about like 30y+ shots.

[Boosnickerty]

Wow, I must be in a minority or I just don't know the game very well, because I almost always use backspin on chip shots. If I use top spin, it seems like the ball always comes up short. Needless to say I've never gotten a rising ball shot. Is there a good rule of thumb for rising shots? Thanks for any help.

[Roughdawg4]

you just answered it yourself :) Overshoot the ball. If you see it falling short you need more power because the ball will die down, especially on an upward slope.

[Boosnickerty]

I understand what your saying but what do you go by when you hit rising shots? On backspin, I know that I personally aim for the flag mark on the power meter give or take a little depending on the wind. When you use topspin, do you try to hit the mark after the flag, two marks after or what are you looking for when you hit the ball?

[HoTHiTTeR]

I just Aim for the pin and over power the hell out of the ball, usually 3+ grid lengths.

[The-Dreamcaster]

i'm slightly more delicate than that when it comes to chipping. Depending on the green, angle, distance and slopes involved i will play different clubs.

Large variating slopes, i'll play a pw to get over most of it and a riser. shots with slopes at the beginning but less afterwards, i'll play a pw with no spin, try and get it over. i'll play 7I Riser shots on relatively flat greens. in terms of power, depending on the conditions, but usually 2-3% more is what i am for. Out of sand, i usually hit 20%+ more, + backspin to get the ball out.

[RK1997]

i thought homings dont work on chips. when i tried it hit the pin and bounced off ( the person i was using was maxed out)

[the_smug_one]

You've got to have a high spin rating and even then chips are not guaranteed to home. Best chance is when you're below the hole and hitting from close to 15 yards or close to 30 yards out (so that you're swinging with close to 100% power). Got one just last night from 15 yards with Alex.

[Roughdawg4]

I think the ball needs to be in the air long enough to activate. The higher your spin stat, the quicker it will activate. But also if it takes a bad hop and hits the pole, it can lose homing as well.


And even after that, you can lose homing when it spins at the hole and misses, that really stinks :(

[cartman1337]

Generally speaking, how high can you club up and still have a shot at a homer? I "missed" an Albatross on Okinawa with a 3W with Dino once, but I later made a 247y Albatross with a 5W on Highlands with Anya. Does anybody know at what clubs you can start to expect the homings to kick in?

[reeja19]

I believe any club you can achieve backspin with is capable of homing.

[K-X]

Generally speaking, how high can you club up and still have a shot at a homer? I "missed" an Albatross on Okinawa with a 3W with Dino once, but I later made a 247y Albatross with a 5W on Highlands with Anya. Does anybody know at what clubs you can start to expect the homings to kick in?

First reply might answer that.

Several dynamics determine whether a shot will home. First and foremost, a character's spin and their distance from the hole play a role. High spin is obviously good, while being too far out or too close in can hurt your chances of homing. The "fullness" of your swing also matters - that is to say, you're much less likely to get a homing when swinging at 52% from 16 yards out than swinging at 98% from 14 yards out. Another factor is the ball's lie, though it's probably easiest to think about this in the context of how it affects the spin you are able to put on the ball.

My version:
Homing will occur only if the ball would have spun back. It does not matter how long the ball is in the air or what distance. For the ball to spin back, it needs to be hit in a high enough arc for the current character and club/ball selection you are using. For example, Dino with infinity club/ball can BS a 4w but only if you hit power over 90%, that way the arc is high enough for the ball to spin back. With a 5w/3i, I think it is 60% power and the ball will still spin back. The less spin you have, the farther down the club line it goes I would assume. I believe the criteria changes on small approach shots but it's the same idea. I don't know the formula for it but 'spin = good' works.

[BGunner]

Generally speaking, how high can you club up and still have a shot at a homer? I "missed" an Albatross on Okinawa with a 3W with Dino once, but I later made a 247y Albatross with a 5W on Highlands with Anya. Does anybody know at what clubs you can start to expect the homings to kick in?

First reply might answer that.

Several dynamics determine whether a shot will home. First and foremost, a character's spin and their distance from the hole play a role. High spin is obviously good, while being too far out or too close in can hurt your chances of homing. The "fullness" of your swing also matters - that is to say, you're much less likely to get a homing when swinging at 52% from 16 yards out than swinging at 98% from 14 yards out. Another factor is the ball's lie, though it's probably easiest to think about this in the context of how it affects the spin you are able to put on the ball.

My version:
Homing will occur only if the ball would have spun back. It does not matter how long the ball is in the air or what distance. For the ball to spin back, it needs to be hit in a high enough arc for the current character and club/ball selection you are using. For example, Dino with two infinity clubs can BS a 4w but only if you hit power over 90%, that way the arc is high enough for the ball to spin back. With a 5w/3i, I think it is 60% power and the ball will still spin back. The less spin you have, the farther down the club line it goes I would assume. I believe the criteria changes on small approach shots but it's the same idea. I don't know the formula for it but 'spin = good' works.


Good explanation, KX, only thing that I would add is that your height above or below the holes can also contribute to homing potential. For example, if you're hitting at a pin that is way downhill (like Ocean #3 tee shot or Crown #2 approach) , the ball can lose it's potential to spin at all, maybe because the ball is in the air longer and basically runs out of rotational gas - obviously this would affect players with less spin stat more or with a standard/standard setup.

Agree? Disagree? Talk amongst yourselves...

[interyernan]

I never thought you could homer a wood. On the occasions i've hit the pin with a wood it's normally a riser, until last night... I had to homer eags at highland with Suzuki with his five wood, one x6 and the other x9 - i was pretty happy.

[K-X]

Good explanation, KX, only thing that I would add is that your height above or below the holes can also contribute to homing potential. For example, if you're hitting at a pin that is way downhill (like Ocean #3 tee shot or Crown #2 approach) , the ball can lose it's potential to spin at all, maybe because the ball is in the air longer and basically runs out of rotational gas - obviously this would affect players with less spin stat more or with a standard/standard setup.

Agree? Disagree? Talk amongst yourselves...

I've never noticed that happen, the worst character for spin is L.J. and he can only go up to a 5 iron for spin if you leave him at default. Even he can backspin a 40y drop so elevation shouldn't matter.

I never thought you could homer a wood. On the occasions i've hit the pin with a wood it's normally a riser, until last night... I had to homer eags at highland with Suzuki with his five wood, one x6 and the other x9 - i was pretty happy.

Yeah, a good way to know if a character can backspin a 5 wood is if they have 'high' listed when you select them. Max spin is able to do a 4 wood.

[the_smug_one]

It has been my experience that elevation does matter. BG described it well in his "rotational gas" analogy. This is particularly true for shorter chips that would not otherwise home.

[K-X]

With shorter chips you can't backspin as much anyways, maybe just getting confused with that? I really don't think it matters with a standard shot.

I just tested now and can't get the back spin to fail because of elevation (40y drop). The ball is is in the air for over 8 seconds but still spins back every time. :-X Maybe give me a situation?

[the_smug_one]

Don't have the game in front of me so I can't check, but I can only confirm this is true for chips. It would seem to make sense for full shots as well... maybe BG can provide an example.

[reeja19]

I believe that just like the distance stat the spin stat can go beyond the max. If you try using turbo spin ball and club with dino who gets max with infinity I believe the amount of spin still increases.

[K-X]

Don't have the game in front of me so I can't check, but I can only confirm this is true for chips. It would seem to make sense for full shots as well... maybe BG can provide an example.

The situation he said at oceania seems to not fail either (L.J. with standards). It must have been some other reason.

[MasonR]

Yeah, a good way to know if a character can backspin a 5 wood is if they have 'high' listed when you select them. Max spin is able to do a 4 wood.

Characters with Mid-flight can also backspin a 5w, good example is Gloria with Big Air/Inf. Any spin stat over A allows for this (right on the A line isn't enough, anything over that is), ball flight is determined to be High once you pass the halfway A point. Example, Toro with Grass Cutter/Inf ball (Stand club) can't spin a 5w, but Toro with Inf club (stand ball) can.

Max spin doesn't allow 4w spin, you actually have to go past the set max (and even that isn't enough). Good example would be Anya Inf/Inf, her spin stat is S + 25% of a grade, she can't spin a 4w,

but Dino with just the Inf club can, even though they're both at "Max" spin.

The Spin stat needed to spin a 4w is Max S and at least half a grade more (Dino at mid-S, + one full grade).





With a 5w/3i, I think it is 60% power and the ball will still spin back.

Closer to 70%, at best high 60s, but that's with Dino at Inf/Inf, which if we were to count the overflow he'd have a spin stat one full grade above S. That kinda spin isn't practical for everyone else. With S spin you can get in the mid-high 80% and still backspin, certainly nothing lower than 80% though. With A spin you won't get much unless you're hitting at least 90%.

[the_smug_one]

Very enlightening post Mace. Probably goes without saying, but there's a reason this guy leads the international server in wins. We've got plenty of talented level 20s to go around, but play one stroke match with Mace and you'll quickly realize that he's thinking a good 2 to 3 levels deeper about how to play each hole than just about anyone else on our server.

[MasonR]

Says the guy who stomped me at Euro yest. ;)

[Roughdawg4]

Very enlightening post Mace. Probably goes without saying, but there's a reason this guy leads the international server in wins.



He has a gameshark before its released?


:)

[MasonR]

Ha, fun fact that smug and I found out the other night. The sbs spin point for 5w and 3iron is the same, anything over base "A" spin rating.

[The-Dreamcaster]

Ha, fun fact that smug and I found out the other night. The sbs spin point for 5w and 3iron is the same, anything over base "A" spin rating.


i've seen it but the fact has never really sunk home before. if i think about it, i was always suprised when i got sbs with a 5w with a spin.

[MasonR]

I just think it's weird that it's the same point for both clubs, not necessarily that you can spin a 5w with A spin, that much I knew previously, but Smug brought up the point that there's no real big advantage a spin stat higher than C unless you're just over A because you're still going to only be able to spin a 4iron at most.

I mean, Toro with Standard/Inf can't spin a 3iron, but Toro with Inf/Standard can spin both 3iron and 5wood.

Seems lazy.

[fried_blowney]

I've managed to get SBS with a 4w using Anya inf/inf. Strange. I've also had a homer fail to even activate using alex inf/inf on the 2nd par 3 on Euro (I think 215 yards). Even stranger. I was less than thrilled. Might have been the 2 bounces before actually hitting the pin though.

[MasonR]

How sure are you about that 4w spin? O_o

[Kbongg]

I wouldn't doubt that one bit if he had an uphill lie especially (remember too that if you use a power boost it increases your ability to spin)

[the_smug_one]

I wouldn't doubt that one bit if he had an uphill lie especially (remember too that if you use a power boost it increases your ability to spin)


Power boost helps spin for a given club? I didn't even know that.

I'm also inclined to think he might have had an uphill lie. Anya with inf/inf is right on the brink of being able to sbs a 4w anyway, right?

[MasonR]

25% of a grade away from 4w sbs. SS 25% with Inf/Inf iirc, SS 50% is the 4 sbs point.

Never heard about power shots giving more spin, aside from you being able to club down once. Something I'll take a look at.

[Kbongg]

Wasn't this covered when jess was still around? Closer you are to the clubs 100% mark the better chances of it spinning (was during a chipping spinning question/answer session). The powermode lets you go over the clubs 100% power line. still shows as 100%, but over the clubs level. The amount over would be more for the shorter clubs on a percentage basis.

Mace, can you check this just to be sure?

[MasonR]

I don't ever remember that conversation taking place.

I understand the theory, and I'm well aware that there are spin benchmarks for how full a shot you're hitting (if this specifically is what you mean, yes it was coverred), but I never thought the game considered a power shot to be over the 100% cap for a given club (that's the part I have no memory of ever talking about).

I'll look at it when I get home for sure.

[Kbongg]

I will test it in about 30 minutes and post. kinda pointless with the doubt that will be cast upon my review if it is correct, but i really want to know.

[the_smug_one]

As long as you're wearing the bi-focals (sp?) no one here is going to doubt.

[MasonR]

The thing is, there are just so many claims from so many people about things that happen in this game it's hard not to be skeptical when I've never noticed. If you were to say test it in training and articulate your results clearly I wouldn't doubt it at all, I'd still go home and try it but that would be because it's something I had never seen before.

You're different from random internet user #132383927 though, I'd put a little more stock in something you said.

[the_smug_one]

You're different from random internet user #132383927 though

You're talking about plum, right?

[Kbongg]

a little more huh, thanks :P

[MasonR]

Italics didn't go through.

a <i>little</i> more

[Kbongg]

ok, it has been tested quite thoroughly. Please just keep ignoring me. thank you for your cooperation.

[the_smug_one]

Sorry to hear about that internet user #132383929. Happens to the randomest of us.

[Kbongg]

I do still think i should have more trust placed in me than in that schmuck #132383927

[the_smug_one]

Sure. A <i>little</i> more.

Kidding, old and wise go well together. I still believe.

[Kbongg]

Have i ever regailed you with the stories of the trials and tribulations i endured while trecking to and fro during my school days?

[MasonR]

To and fro were both uphill, no?

[Mutard]

All this is kinda pointless to discuss when you consider that homing shots don't even friggin work half the time. I hardly ever even try for them anymore. How is it that they can program the 3ft gimmie shots to ignore th slope of the green and not the homers, dumb imo.

Hows this for a kick in the nuts though, the other day I hit an alby shot on peaks 18 w Kratos maxed (pinhole, infinity) with sbs, hit the pin on second bounce and the damn ball bounced its way into the sand before it could ever attempt to home back! I wound up in a worse situation than if i never hit the pin at all.
I really hope they fix this kind of crap in the next installment of the game. If you do what it says you need to do to get a homing shot then it should friggin work every time, period.

[MasonR]

I strongly disagree. Homers failing, while it sucks, is worlds better than it being an automatic hole out.

A homing shot is one of the most exciting parts of the game. I've had alby homing fails turn into bogeys due to Trap +2, I've had potential new pbs ruined by an errant homing, I've had homing shots spin into the water and I've had them completely miss the cup on the come back. I still hold the position that they're fine the way they are. Everyone experiences the high and low points of homing shots. Logically if homers couldn't fail then there'd be no multiple homing balls, which are just tops when it comes to cool shots, and can rack up ridiculous points.

This isn't TW, no gamebreaker auto gimmes here. The game is very realistic with the exception of the special shots, in terms of ball physics and how shots react to the course. Special shots are a great way to spice the game up without making it a joke. I think if you hit a ridiculous homing ball on a Crown green with massive slopes and elevation differences near the hole, there's no reason to think it should go in 100% of the time. Golf is a game that is subject to "luck" more than any other and I think it's a great part of the formula for making a fun and competitive game.

Homing shots failed in previous games as well, so I don't think there's much hope in them changing the formula to a gimme hole out.

I understand where you're coming from, I respect your opinion I just couldn't disagree more with it.

And the fact that homers can fail hardly make it pointless to discuss how to hit them.

[Kbongg]

Wow mace, that was a very good post. Not just because of what you wrote, but how you wrote it. I don't think you will be able to find anyone (even dre) that thinks you came off as prickish, well done.

Also, Homing have to be able to fail or nobody would ever try anything else. How boring would that be.

[Kbongg]

oh, and dre, that is not a knock on you. We know you are just keeping him honest.

[Mutard]

I too respect your opinion mace, but following that logic shouldn't risers be affected by the wind? They fail too, but only because of the way they bounce while entering the cup. You can't tell me that that was intentional by the devs as well? While successful multiple homing shots are pretty cool to see they in no way reflect the skill of the player that made them as opposed to failed homers. They are complete luck when they work and when they don't.

Risers and spirals are intended to work 100% of the time they are triggered so homers should be as well. I think it would be equally as cool to see them home back from the sand trap they bounced into or hell, even skip their way backwards across the water back to the hole. It really wouldn't make the game that much easier as it takes a hell of a lot of skill to even hit the pin with a super backspin shot.

Then again, I played and thoroughly enjoyed the game before the super/special shots were even in it so why did they even implement them in the first place? I think it was to slightly reduce the difficulty while adding a "cool" feature at the same time. Probably also the same reason the "Advance Shot System" came about. After playing every game in the HSG series quite a bit I can honestly say that "Advance Shots" is pretty much "easy mode". I admit, I finally gave in and started using it myself, but I suppose I just lack BGunner like determination. :D

Either way, if they intended the homers to sometimes fail then they should probably explain that in the little tip page about it. Or how about this as a possible solution:
"Loyalty level up!: Homing ball success rate increased by 10%"

No offense, but I doubt you would be wishing homers would fail sometimes if they never had in the first place.

[MasonR]

Um...Risers and Spirals were intended to succeed 100% of the time? Were did you get that?\ Sorry but I'm calling BS on that. Nothing is guaranteed in this game, every kind of shot can fail. Spirals and Risers both fail, Risers quite regularly, Spirals almost never but they DO fail. I respect your opinion that you want shots to go in every time, but I do not respect or agree with your statement that risers and spirals were intended to succeed every single time either.

And I'm not sure why people keep referencing the loading screen tips to prove their point. Since when does every single gameplay mechanic have to be flashed in front of you at one point in a loading message? Isn't it easy enough to figure that if your ball is homing straight at the pin on a slope that's pitched at 60 degrees that it won't go in all the time? Yes some homing fails are brutal and unexpected, some are quite generous and wholly justified though.



It really wouldn't make the game that much easier as it takes a hell of a lot of skill to even hit the pin with a super backspin shot.

It wouldn't make it easier, it would make the game flat out broken. Yes it takes skill to hit the pin with sbs, but it also takes luck. There are some people who fall ass backwards into it and some people who do it at least once a round or more, hole out or not. I just think you're looking for a more TW-esque game if you want auto-hole outs. It's a Homing Shot, not a Game Breaker. They won't change it as they haven't in the last 4 games it's something you'll have to get used to.

[Marrow_Farmer]

I was playing a 2 player stroke match at Safari at the weekend, I'm using Alex Inf/Inf, I stick my drive in the rough and hit a powered up 3I approach with sbs. 1 bounce hit the pin but no homing grrrrr! The chap I'm playing tells me you can't do homing shots from the rough. I didn't beleive him but couldn't be bothered to argue. Was he right or was I unlucky?

(The irony is while we are still discusing it I go and hit a homing ace on the very next hole, I don't think he was best pleased ;D)

[MasonR]

Homing ball can't be activated from the rough, only from fairway or bunkers. Risers and spirals can be activated from the rough though.

[Kbongg]

have not looked into this, but can a kraptos type person use homing from rough? probably not, and has probably been answered somewhere else. Just wondering. say SW from rough, full swing type deal.

[MasonR]

Yeah no dice there. Think of it as the game checking the lie before the shot is even hit, even with rough affinity it doesn't matter.

I left out cartpath btw, you can home from Fairway, trap and cartpath, but not from rough/bare ground.

[reeja19]

Semi Rough homing possible?

[Roughdawg4]

I believe semi rough is possible.

[MasonR]

Pretty sure it isn't.

[Kbongg]

Of all of the realistic aspects of this game, how is there no comeback from bare ground?

[Roughdawg4]

okay time to search the archive on this one because I think I am certain I have activated from the rough before.

[reeja19]

I am fairly certain I have seen homing activate from semi rough, but I have never seen it from rough.

[MasonR]

I'd like to see that RD, please check. Keep in mind that you can get shoddy fairway lies at like 85-100 %, that's not rough it's still fairway.

As for bare ground, kb, I've never seen a true-to-life bare ground lie in this game, it's always that quarter-buried lie instead of say a hardpan lie you'd get most of the time in real life.

[Roughdawg4]

yeah I will double check that when I get out of work, sometimes you are positive you did something but you haven't.


Of course, I certainly hope it was from a decent distance or that shot wont be saved :)

[MasonR]

Hope you find it. I'll hit a few wedges from the semi cut when I get home today, with Rough Affinity just to make sure, but I don't ever remember being able to activate homing or SBS in any HSG game from either the rough or the first cut.

[MasonR]

And for the record I'm all over youtube at the moment looking for a homing from the rough.

[reeja19]

Lol I just read a 10 page arguement between Mason and RD on gamefaqs about homing shots, funny **** guys.

[kumanzc]

I remember that one. I was kind of hoping for a reprise of it when I first starting checking out this thread. Its like a car accident, you just can't stop looking at it.

[MasonR]

GameFAQs archive is absolute GOLD, keep reading.

[MasonR]

"I would actually be shocked if you ever made it to G0..."

Dre, to me April of last year.

[reeja19]

I can see where the rest of my day at work is going to be spent :)

[MasonR]

Oh easily. I'd recommend just starting from the last page and working your way to the front.

[Roughdawg4]

GameFAQs archive is absolute GOLD, keep reading.



Amen. Only on HSG gamefaqs board can a have a happy christmas thread turn into an argument 8)


Anything over 20 posts is probably an argument :)

[Roughdawg4]

Oh and anything started by Dre is a must read as well ;D

[HoTHiTTeR]

I'm glad I could be the originator of this epic thread.

[the_smug_one]

Oh, and the answer is 6.5 yards.

[Roughdawg4]

lol I got 5.7 in my video section :)

[OthersGirl]

Okay --- so now we KINDA know how close you can be and still have homers activate. Here's MY question.... I was playing CrownLInks with Shoinan in stroke few weeks ago- - hole one LongTee, on 2nd shot, I hit my perfect impact, smacked the pin dead on, and NO HOMING ACTIVATED, alby lost.

Shoinan made comment that homers dont usually activate on drives.

This gives me two confusions perhaps you ppl can clear up.

1) Umm, thought drive was a term to describe your FIRST shot -- not the 2nd approach? or is it just a certain distance that makes it a "drive"???

and

2) WHY THE HELL DIDNT MY HOMER ACTIVATE?? My ball was on an UPslope lie when i hit it, and the wind was behind me 3.4y, nothing crazy. i'm NOT sure what club i used but i think i manually recorded the shot so i can probalby find out if that matters to the answer.

It was crazy-making to me. Anyone have any ideas? :))

[cartman1337]

You drive on the first shot, with a driver club. To reach a par 5 in two you'll mostly need to use the driver on the second shot as well, maybe not the 1W, but often the 3W. All ?W clubs are called drivers... 1W and 3W cannot under ANY circumstance activate a homing, as there's no way to make it backspin at all. On hole one on Crown, especially on long tee, you HAVE to use one of those two clubs to reach, hence there was no way a homing would be even conceivable. A couple of characters can backspin a 5W, but any longer clubs than that: forget it...

[ghost33]

i had a homing ball work at 20 yds in ot2

[OthersGirl]

You drive on the first shot, with a driver club. To reach a par 5 in two you'll mostly need to use the driver on the second shot as well, maybe not the 1W, but often the 3W. All ?W clubs are called drivers... 1W and 3W cannot under ANY circumstance activate a homing, as there's no way to make it backspin at all.

AHHHHHHHHH. Well highway robbery i suppose. LOL But i have had backspin on the green befor e-- guess not enough to make it activate a homing. who knows. All i know is that i was DARRRRNNED mad. I would be more emphatic than that -- but i fear the censor police would get me! >:( LOL Thanks for the info Cartman :))

Good to know :)